Well, it's the Christmas season - so let me just say ...Ho Ho Ho HOKEY. CieAura. Blah. I'll give 50 bucks to any CieAura rep who can do those supposed strength tests with the CieAura hologram in a black bag, and five phony placebo products in five other bags, and tell which is which and get any kind of measurable response.

What a load of crap. People really believe you can embed a vibrancy or a frequency or whatever into a sticker? I emailed the company asked them for info on the product, and if there was any way to detect the embedded crap in the hologram decal via an external measuring device. No response.

That's because it may as well be a "My Name Is RETARD" sticker stuck on the front of your sweater instead of a 'hologram' in your pocket, or on your wrist, or whatever they are pitching.

The FTC just passed new rules on December 1, 2009 about health claims. Can't WAIT to see how long before the whack this CieAura Scam and the other Hologram Health Nonsense Products.

So just how many companies publish the e-mail address of their management on their websites?

Have you tried the products?  If you don't have any firsthand knowledge of the products, your claims of this being a "scam" are as difficult to swallow as it is for you to accept the possibility that the CieAura product might actually benefit people.

Full disclosure:  I am a user of the CieAura product, and have found the pain relief to work for me.  I was referred by somebody for whom the pain relief offered changed his life profoundly.

I certainly don't claim that CieAura will work for everybody.  I would also say that anybody who isn't experiencing results should not buy this or any other product that doesn't work for them!!  I was skeptical at first, but was given 2 opportunities to try free samples of the product before deciding to buy any.

How about full disclosure for the others who are posting here?  What are your respective agendas?

Ken Rasner, CieAUra and Warren Hanchey, 8ight were both part of the LifeWave management team.

They have both distanced themselves from LifeWave using various reasons for why they left the former SCAM.

The LifeWave patches did not use a holographic sticker but used two patches. One brown (glucose) and one white (glycerin) were said to contain magic nano antennas that "communicated" with your body cells.

As with CieAura and 8ight holographic stickers (just a few cents when purchased in bulk), LifeWave patches were cheap to produce. In the early days, Mrs. Schmidt reported David Schmidt mixed the ingredients for the patches on their kitchen table. Schmidt later went on to dump his wife, children and the family dog, and head off to his new lifestyle in LA.

Power Balance is also a holographic sticker SCAM endorsed by Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq is no stranger to SCAMS having been involved in previous SCAMS.

The old saying is as true today as ever.

There's a sucker born every minute!

"I would like to know how many people who were skeptical have tried the product and received no result - and if they were able to receive any CieAura refund for the CieAura hologram."

This is a good point as well.

I appreciate and thank you for your input and perspective.

Create a Great Day

Drugfreehealth -

If CieAura publishes the placebo tests, I will be the first to sit up and take notice.

With acupuncture, you can see the needle entering the skin, understand how it 'may' interact with nerves. With the holographic patch - they can't even show me that they can tell an active patch from a 'used' patch. I'm a skeptic. There's nothing I can see that makes me feel any differently. If there was some observerable test that would show a process taking place, I'd feel differently.

Do you feel you could personally tell the difference between a 'used' patch and a new one?

You make a good point. Or two.

However, you are making 2 assumptions. One that the chips do not work, and two that they know about it. They make their money by people buying the chips. If the chips do not work, people are not going to buy them. Therefore they will not make money. Why would anyone in their right minds go into a business that would be exposed so quickly?

I agree that their reticence on the subject of how they work looks bad. But perhaps they have a reason that you and I are not party to. We can but watch and wait! Truth will out!

I don't think anyone mentions an email for the company management.

A phone number and a valid physical address? Thats a different story. And all legit companies selling a product provide both.

If you call the number they provide for credit card and payment issues, it goes to a voicemail 24/7 ( Red Flag ) and they promise to call back.

My personal agenda is that even with the placebo effect, this product is a carnival trick at best. Snake oil at worst. If the belief in 'magic rocks' helped someone's chronic pain, I'd be all for them putting magic rocks in their pocket. If somone was charging them money for the magic rocks - I'd point out it was a scam.

Say what you will GECNA, but there is no verifiable proof this is anything but a 5 cent decal. No blind test between this product or a Pokemon sticker will ever produce any result besides the placebo effect.

Eventually the FTC will step in. Hopefully the people who believe in it and are experiencing placebo relief will continue to do so.

How about full disclosure for the others who are posting here?  What are your respective agendas?

Have you had the joy yet of visiting his "harmonic fm" website?  Better yet is his his home site when you google "ken rasner"  I think it says some crap about how "GOD" comes first in his life, then sorta concludes with highlights on his book on " amassing extreme wealth"  didn't Jesus say you cannot slave for God and for riches?  Why do people buy into this stuff?

Our good buddy, the flat footed Ken Rasner, is currently busy at the Official Launch of CieAura at Hilton Americas, 1600 Lamar St, Houston, TX 77010 US

One can only imagine the amount of BS being liberally spread around the room today and until Sunday.

The faithful will be energized, but not for the reasons they think they are.

Just as with all the other SCAMS, LifeWave, 8ight, Power Balance, Mojo Future tech and a host of wannabes, this MLM is all about making money for those at the TOP of the PYRAMID.

It's interesting to note that these SCAMS have even hit the so called "respectable" online retailers.

Amazon is currently advertising Power Balance Bracelets and other similar products.

The Power Balance Company has been EXPOSED on Australian television.

So, what does that tell you about Amazon?

I doubt that I'll be spending my money there any more.

I have had sceptics who have had results, and some who have not, just as I have had beleivers who have had results and some who have not. The question is, have you tried them? I have. And they work for me and for my dogs!

I can see that the lack of testing really does influence you. I can appreciate that. I know that I cannot tell a used one from a live one. I can only tell if I do not feel any difference. That would be my only test.

I look at it like this. It is either real or it is not. If it is, then no problem. If it is not, and it works, then it is the placebo. But if it is placebo, and I sleep better, and have less pain, it is still worth it to me. If it ever stops working, then I stop buying.

Meanwhile I continue to share it, and enjoy the relief I am bringing to my friends.

No blind test between this product or a Pokemon sticker will ever produce any result besides the placebo effect.

LMFAO!

None of these products can produce any measurable results other than the placebo result.

Cieaura Scam = Pokemon Stickers. Perfect.

Yes, but not in the way you probably intend!  Your eloquent use of the "f" word speaks volumes about you.

"Identical".  Really?  How do you know it's identical?  What tests have you conducted to come to the conclsion it's identical?

I was very very skeptical. I thought the guy who gave them to me had lost his freakin mind. All I can say is this; I used to snore and hold my breath when I slept. After a week of using the sleep chip my wife says I have stopped snoring and holding my breath. She thought I was dead, and checked to see if I was still breathing. I don't know how I could stop snoring if the product was fake? I've given them to three other people and they have stopped snoring.  What am I supposed to believe? Ya'll are saying it's a scam, but my wife says my sleeping patterens have completely changed. Can anyone explain, how could I make myself stop snoring, while sleeping? My cousin put one on her husband in the middle of the night because she couldn't sleep with his snoring. She said within 20 minutes he stopped snoring, and he had no idea the chip was even on. Oh well, I must  be loosing my mind I guess.

How long does the Rest Quiet chip last when you use it? Do you get more than one nights rest with each one?

Have you tried using the same patch for longer than the recommended period before it's "used up"?

That's a great testimonial, since it involves another person observing a difference, but I'm still a skeptic. It's one of those things where I think I'd have to try a Rest Quiet patch myself to see if I noticed any difference.

What's the price per patch/holographic chip?

I usually only use them for 4 nights, but some people say they work for more. I have heard people say the pain ones last up to 6 days. I always lose them before that! But I do know that my right shoulder was killing me this morning, and I put one on, and it has not hurt all day even though I have been painting the woodwork!

If you go to www.drugfreehealth.cieaura you can buy a sample pack - I think it is $12 and has samples of all three chips.

I've just read through all of the posts under CieAura Scam and I understand you and many others are skeptics and that is definitely your right and I also respect your right to express your opinions.   And THAT is exactly what they are...opinions.  Like you say, nothing has been proven as yet, but that also means you CAN'T yet prove they DON'T really work as suggested.

My son, who is studying to be a physicist and is therefore, quite a skeptic of anything he can't prove through science, has test marketed the allergy chips with amazing results and because of that, has become a believer.  He is anxiously waiting for the patents to be approved so he can gain access to the required documented filings which should show how the vibrational aspects of the chips actually work, since his specific field of study deals directly with vibrations.

I don't claim to understand any of it, but I do understand why people would be hesitant to believe something that looks like no more than a clear sticker could do anything, much less relieve pain, assist with sleep or increase energy and now, potentially help with allergies.  What I DO know from my own personal experience, my husband's personal experience and that of my children and grandchildren is that we have ALL received incredible benefits from the chips.

Their allergies are much improved and they are anxiously awaiting the company to being marketing the allergy chip; I no longer require Advil PM to get a decent night's rest, so I've eliminated a harmful drug from my nightly routine, my husband's 3 ruptured discs no longer keep him from significant physical activity when he's wearing pain chips and I no longer get that mid-afternoon energy slump.

In response to your specific question regarding how long the rest quiet chip lasts when I use it....I have used the same chip for up to 5 days with the same results, taking it off each morning and then using medical tape to keep it in the appropriate place the following nights.  I have kept the energy chip on for more than 3 days and only noticed a decrease in my energy level when the chip actually fell off because of the adhesive losing it's effectiveness.  So my experience has been that they are effective longer than 3 days, but require some help with the adhesiveness after that.  As to how long they can last, I haven't actually done any sort of testing and normally change them out when I tire of using tape to hold them on versus the 3 day effectiveness expectation.

Also, it took me about 5 days before I actually noticed a change in my sleeping habit with the chip.  For some it seems to happen in one night, but what I noticed after 5 nights of 'giving them a try' was that I began to stay in REM much more, where I dreamed alot more, but woke up feeling more rested.  I have also 'heard' of many people who stopped snoring when using them, but if that's been a side effect, my husband and I are sleeping too well for either of us to notice.

Regarding dogs and babies and their inability to lie OR potentially tell you they feel differently...when a dog who can't walk suddenly begins running or a child who had never slept through the night suddenly begins sleeping through the night, allowing the parents to finally also get some rest after confirming their child was still breathing, people become believers.

So you all can continue to slam those of us who have become believers and call us all the names you want, i.e. that we're ignorant, stupid, dumb or just plain crazy.  I've been called worse and am not offended by it, nor will it affect my use of what I have come to believe is an amazing product.

GSP -

Well written rebuttal.

I personally don't believe that the CieAura chips do anything other than provide a placebo effect. I'm pretty well versed in the sciences myself, and did some digging myself. I too wanted to read the patent.

Unfortunately, there is no patent application.

Let me completely clarify this statement because I'm sure people are going to object, because all of the CieAura literature says "Patent Pending".

There are two kinds of patent applications. One is a provisional patent. You send in whatever info you like, it is not published, and it is like a 'placeholder' while you prepare your actual patent application. The provisional patent expires in one year.

Here is my email exchange with HarmonicFM, the manufacturer of the "Rest Quiet" chip for CieAura. They also produced the "Rest Quiet" Chip for Lifewave:

To: 'Lori Allen'
Subject: RE: product information

April 19, 2010

Hi,

Who would I contact for more information on the pending patent. The information should be public record, but I am unable to find it in the patent database.

This would seem to be basic info that your company would provide upon request.

To: Doc

From: Lori Allen [lori at harmonicfm.com]
Subject: RE: product information

April 19, 2010

Currently we have a Provisional Patent on file. With a provisional patent, there is no patent number. Other than that, we are releasing no further information on patents at this time.

To: 'Lori Allen'
Subject: RE: product information\

April 19, 2010

I guess I’m a bit confused by the secrecy.

The provisional patent is still public record, correct? Could you provide me with the name of the patent so I can read up on the patent pending technology that is referenced in the company marketing materials? 

I don’t understand the unwillingness to make public information available to customers and potential customers.

To: Doc

From: Lori Allen [lori at harmonicfm.com]
Subject: RE: product information

April 19, 2010

No, provisional patent information is not public record.

To: 'Lori Allen'
Subject: RE: product information

Hi Lori,

Thanks for your response. So that I am 100% clear – there is a provisional patent application at this time, but a full patent application has not yet been filed?

Could you clarify a couple of things for me for the sake of due diligence? 

How long has the provisional patent been in place, and when does HarmonicFM plan on filing the full patent?

Is the Rest Quiet chip you manufacture the same “Rest Quiet” product that was manufactured for LifeWave?

Has there been any double blind studies on the products, and are the results published?

Can HarmonicFM scan or otherwise check a chip to detect if it is ‘used’ or still viable?

To: Doc

From: Lori Allen [lori at harmonicfm.com]
Subject: RE: product information

April 20, 2010

Patent information is the province of our board because proprietary information is involved. When any of these items becomes public, then we will discuss it.

Marvin Barre, the CEO of HarmonicFM was an investor with Lifewave. The  RestQuiet name was owned by Mr. Barre. The formula is similar, but manufacturing processes are different.

Testing is in progress, none have been published to date.

Yes we can check a chip to see if it is charged. How is proprietary.

______________________________________________________________________

So HarmonicFM states clearly that an actual non-provision patent application has not yet been filed.  When and if it is filed, it will be a matter of public record.

FIling of a provisional patent does give a company the right to use the term "Patent Pending". For 12 months.

SEE PART 2 FOR MORE ABOUT THE REST QUIET PATENT

PART 2 - The CieAura Patents

The first information I can find posted about CieAura Transparent Holographic Chips is August 1, 2009. ( If anyone has a link to anything sooner, please post it here! )

The company was in "pre-lauch" and marketing their product online. There is a post on the CiaAura Forum on August 15th, 2009, author "CieAura" that says:

CieAura Transparent Holographic Chips™ are a revolutionary new technology using tried and effective homeopathic treatments devised over the past 3000 years. The Transparent Holographic Chips™ effectively are computer programmed holograms which when applied to a person or animal, reacts with the person or animals’ natural bio-magnetic field surrounding the body, causing minute positive disruptions of the bio-field and causing the body to balance its own energies. When the CieAura Holographic Chip is applied to specific acupuncture areas, specific results such as the increase in energy, increase in stamina, deeper, more restful sleep, and other assorted reactions occur, depending on the program formula of the Holographic Chip and the related placement.
 
CieAura Transparent Holographic Chips™ are designed to interact with the bio-magnetic sheath around the physical body in a combination of ways that have been demonstrated for thousands of years to work effectively to heal and improve life. CieAura Holographic Chips have the look of simple decals on the body or clothing and are totally non-invasive and without any chemical component.

It would seem completely logical that the "Provisional Patent" would have been filed before the product manufacturing was begun with the 'new formula' that Lori Allen mentioned. ( BTW Lori, I thought the chip used holograms. The lifewave Rest Quiet chip was the one with a formula of organic components ), so one would reasonably assume that any provisional patent was filed prior to August 1st, 2009. That leaves just a few months for a non-provisional ( PUBLIC ) patent application to be filed.

Although CieAura and HarmonicFM are completely stonewalling on providing any info on the Provisional Patent, or when and if a true Patent Application is going to be filed, or even the date the provisional patent was filed  I was able to find related info on archive sites.

There has actually already been one patent application filed for the "Rest Quiet" chip when they were being produced by HarmonicFM for Lifewave.

The patent was apparently rejected. All of the marketing material that can be found archived online for the CieAura Rest Quiet chip is vitually identical to the marketing material for the Rest Quest chip when it was being sold by LifeWave, or directly by HarmonicFM.

Same product name. Same manufacturer. Same exact claims on it's benefits. According to Lori Allen at HarmonicFM, it's now a different formula.  So did the science change?

There just seems to be too many red flags associated with these product claims, too many excuses for not providing any solid science.  

Thank yo so much for your post. It expressed everything I wanted to say! And matches my experiences! So either we are both nuts, or both right! By the way, I forwarded your reply to my son, who is studying engineering at University, and is also skeptical. I just wish he would follow your sons example and try them. They could help him so much!

PART 2 - The CieAura Patents

The first information I can find posted about CieAura Transparent Holographic Chips is August 1, 2009. ( If anyone has a link to anything sooner, please post it here! )

The Domain "CieAura" was registered on February 19, 2009. That is over one year ago.

Registered through: Global Domain Support
   Domain Name: CIEAURA.COM
      Created on: 19-Feb-09
      Expires on: 19-Feb-19
      Last Updated on: 04-Nov-09

The registration is by proxy, so the contact info for the company and registrant is not attached.

The registration on the CieAuraForum domain is:

Domain Name: CIEAURAFORUM.COM
      Created on: 03-May-09
      Expires on: 03-May-10
      Last Updated on: 03-May-09

   Administrative Contact:
      Rasner, Larry  lrasner@cox.net
      304 e beatryce st
      tempe, Arizona 85281
      United States
      4809466610      Fax --

And yet it works!

I can see you've certainly done your due diligence with regard to wanting to see how/if the chips actually work.  And I can understand how you've come to your conclusion that they are only a placebo since the company has not been as forthcoming as one would expect.  Did you choose to devote this much time to the required research as part of your decision on whether to use the products or do you simply find that type of research interesting?  I guess I'm curious what led you to it in the first place, i.e. what's your why?  Are you a medical doctor and as a result, seeking out the actual science in the literature?  If so, that makes sense to me.

I can tell you we've personally spoken with several doctors, both medical and chiropractic, who seem to have a better understanding of the 'why' or 'how' behind the chips functions.  We've also seen some of these same doctors demonstrate the kinesiology or muscle response testing using the chips in a packet where 3 different chips were in the packet, and removing them one by one to where they identified one specific chip worked on a specific situation and not on another.  Again, I'm sure there are many who also don't believe in kinesiology, but they most likely also don't believe in acupuncture or acupressure either.

At this point, I choose to agree with 'drugfreehealth' that time will tell IF, as you believe, CieAura is hiding the fact these are no more than stickers and everyone's positive results are simply the placebo effect.  Until then, I, like drugfreehealth, believe they DO work and I also believe there IS science behind them that they are just not willing to share yet, for reasons we're not yet privy to.  Again, if they were truly just a placebo, how do they work on animals and small children who can't reason that it SHOULD help them, which is how a placebo works for anyone, i.e. their own brain convincing them it did.  How do you explain that?  Do you think we're all willing ourselves to believe our animals and children are receiving the benefits?  That is not logical to me since there are also way too many skeptics who now 'believe' the product works.  How did the placebo affect change their opinions from 'no way' to 'oh my gosh'.

I don't believe the company is a scam, regardless of Mr. Rasner's past associations with LifeWave and the information you've discovered regarding previous patent applications.  There will always be negative press on any network marketing company, always has and it appears, always will.  So, I guess, for that reason, I have become accustomed to making my own decision about a company or product, as objectively as possible without listening to the negative hype that so many people choose to spread, i.e. 'all network marketing companies are pyramids'.  To me, that's just someone who's uneducated and is brushing with too broad a stroke because of the real bad apples out there that have given this industry an undeserved reputation.

If network marketing were truly a scam industry as some seem to believe, I don't think Robert Kiyosaki, Donal Trump and Warren Buffett would recommend it as one of the best business models for those wanting to create wealth today, much less would they have invested in NM opportunities.

That being said, I understand you're not necessarily slamming NM as many here seem to be, and I think you raise many valid questions, some of which, we've raised ourselves. I, too, hope the company soon chooses to release the information behind their patent claims so we can put this all to rest, one way or the other.  Since we are choosing to believe they DO work, having the supporting documentation behind us would definitely be very beneficial.