Herbalife products for weight loss management and nutritional supplements sold online at HerbalDiet.com - Herbal Diet is a premier authorized Herbalife Distributor.

If you are interested in having a live video webshow, video broadcaster to hold meetings in the comfort of your home, video email, your own video channel and your own boardroom; you need to check out http:susan.myvideotalkpro.com. 

I joined in April and have been very pleased with the company and the products so far.  I think the comp plan is the best of any company I have ever tried before.  Get two and help them get two..  Simple plan!!!

Yeah, I was going to tell you 'no'... :)

 

Umm, yes, hello Jon. I'm interested in trying this new coffee, I hear its absolutely delightful. I would like to sign up and try a free sample. Please let me know what your preferred method of contact is to begin this process.

:P jk,

In all seriousness though, I think what you're doing is fantastic. I had to wait until this week's payday before I could place an order with Fallon Leer, I just wrote to her to make sure she gets the credit for the order I put in. In any event, I think its awesome and hope you get some bites.

As a Javita Rep., one of my primary ways of introducing this to new people is through Sampling.

I'm happy to send you, at no cost, one sleeve of our delicious instant coffee.

I ask only one thing - this is a Jon Patrick program, not through the Company. This is my cost and stock. If you're just looking for free coffee, please don't waste my time or money!

If, however, you've been looking for an unlimited opportunity with a product already consumed by over 1/2 of the world, and are curious if the Javita Product is as good as advertised (it's better), then I'm happy to send you some.

Just drop me an email with your info!

JP

"FillerUP Club states they do not use the monthly membership fee or new people buying certificates/vouchers to pay previous members - so they try to address the 'ponzi' concern upfront."

That's cool, then either they are used to being asked about it, or have studied similar companies that maybe turned out to be scams and wanted to set themselves apart. I can respect that, but I do think its odd that there isn't any information provided anywhere about it. I can definitely respect that you are bound by some legalities, so I definitely don't want you to get in any kind of trouble, but is it also illegal to simply give your opinion on the matter? I would think the only way a company could do anything is to show that you knowingly gave away a company secret, but you said you don't know.....or DO YOU! :P (old 50s drama music). I'm teasing, though I am wondering if you really do know, but can't say, and if so that's cool. Otherwise, I would think its totally safe to just give your opinion about how a company does it. You could even just use make believe companies and products. I'm sincerely sorry for the pressure lol, this is by no means meant as a challenge or anything like that, I'm just super curious after having read the recent posts. Hell, from a business perspective its fascinating as well.

Hey fellas,

Read the thread so far from top to bottom, and its sure nice to see such a civil and thorough discussion. I'm dangling somewhere between feeling a bit shallow for letting that picture make me think this is definitely a ponzi scheme, and trying to be open-minded. I'll say this much, If this system really does rake in investors with un-guaranteed returns, it will require an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep it going, and will likely outgrow its in-flow, just like all the ones before. If it manages to last and get bigger without any legal problems or falling on its back, then I guess I'll have to apologize for my suspicions. I know that's stating the obvious in a way, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that it will likely come to some kind of conclusion fairly fast, they always do. As far as Jon goes, I believe you're being sincere, so I hope you don't take our investigative chatter to heart lol. I do however hope you try to find some details if at all possible in regard to those non-public details. I think any company should more or less be required to be open about its operations if it directly relies on investors to function. Not sure I agree that FillerUp Club should be classified as a BJ's, but I can see that it would be a convenient way to advertise.

Peace, my home slices.

[quote user="Jon"]

FillerUP Club states they do not use the monthly membership fee or new people buying certificates/vouchers to pay previous members - so they try to address the 'ponzi' concern upfront.

Unfortunately, they do not state exactly HOW they do it.  They point out it's a similar concept to buying from a warehouse store.

[/quote]

This sounds great in theory, but it actually makes me more skeptical of the company claims.

Please don't take this personally Jon - I appreciate your posts and responses and am just trying to state my opinion as clearly as possible.

Warehouse stores operate on a volume purchasing basis. They buy bulk quantities and at one time used to only sell bulk quantities to keep costs down and be able to sell products at a lower price with a reduced margin and still be profitable.

They also charged membership fees ( and most still do - Costco, BJs, etc ).

But they don't give rebates on product purchases.

The only similarity I can see between FillerUp Club and warehouse stores is the membership fees. There is no way that FillerUp Club has any volume buying deals with any gas stations in the country. They are simply promising to send a cash back rebate for vouchers submitted from any gas station. The only way they can do so is by using money from voucher sales to rebate those gas purchases ( membership fees alone are too small a fraction of potentional revenue, no matter how you slice it ). Plus, it sounds like the owner says payments aren't coming from the membership fees either.

The money has to come from somewhere - where exactly is that "somewhere"?

If they are only redeeming 3 vouchers per paid member, then maybe they can be profitable. But if it's such a great deal, why would people only be redeeming 3 vouchers? If that's the case, good for them, their breakage model works. But as I said in prior posts, other companies using the same breakage model went bankrupt and at least one owner was indicted for running a ponzi scheme.

If you could get the owner to clarify exactly how the deal is like a membership club, and how they can pay the cash rebates without using membership or voucher fees, please post it here.

Thanks.

 

Hey Wallace.

Wow... long post. :)

I'm at work, so this has to be short but I can address more later.

FillerUP Club states they do not use the monthly membership fee or new people buying certificates/vouchers to pay previous members - so they try to address the 'ponzi' concern upfront.

Unfortunately, they do not state exactly HOW they do it.  They point out it's a similar concept to buying from a warehouse store.

The reason I don't share my thoughts on how the rebates are paid is simple - i'm not 100% positive and the company's never said.  As in any program, i'm just a distributor and can NOT talk for the company.  Doing so could leave me open to action.  So, while I've worked through the logic and come up with what I believe is a plausible explanation, I do not know for sure. 

As for the detailed review/breakdown you included - thanks!  Several of his facts are wrong, but the logical approach behind it that anyone can follow is there. (for example, with a $200 voucher you send in $65 a month and get rebated back a maximum of 1/2 (the 50%) of that - $32.50. Also, they never expire, they automatically renew every 6 months).

With just a couple of facts like that - the certificates renew, they've been in business and paying for over a year now, only 1200 active members, etc. - if it was being sustained by new 'blood' it would have collapsed already, IMHO.  There has to be a legitimate operation behind the scenes' through agreements with producers, distributors, or investments that makes it all possible.

I certainly understand the skepticism - I've run the numbers myself.  As I said, they've done everything they've promised so far, and I'll continue to believe until proven otherwise.

More later! Take care!

JP

Hey Jon, thanks for the reply.

I agree that any company can fail, and at least for myself, I don't think that is a reason to run the founders, or the concept through the mud. In the case of gas savings mlms, I can definitely concur with Watchdog as we have literally picked them apart on numerous occasions (companies that were found to be less than authentic), and I want to make it clear that as of yet, and so long as everyone is reporting that they got what they earned, there is no reason to clump FillerUp Club in with them, but keep in mind it sort of brings up a bit of cynicism.

As far as the house goes, I agree with you that not every legit business should, or does have a large office, 100 man staff and a huge communications network, I'm just pointing out that it looks a little odd to be quite that small, yet manage so many transactions. I wasn't certain if you read Watchdog's breakdown of past systems, so I wanted to re-post it here just to get your response. One thing I disagree with you about however is that you feel you think you know how the rebates work, but won't say so simply to protect a trade secret, but in some ways that sort of adds to the shadowy suspicious surrounding companies like this. Certainly for a company you seem to respect, I would think in the interest of keeping their name clean, you might sort of debunk the more cynical ideas. There are few avenues here on these forums that such trade secrets could ever impact you or Fillerup Club in any way. Helping to explain rebates however, would help us understand those concepts and would directly add to the integrity of Fillerup Club, especially since so many people come here to research companies in an effort to better their investment options. I guess I can't imagine why would prefer not to.

Anyway, here is Watchdog's post about gas rebate companies:

Every time gas prices spike up, another 50% gas deal or half off gas deal springs up.

What do they all have in common?

None of them ever survive. Does that make FillerUp Club ( FillerupClub.com ) a scam? Maybe, maybe not. But I'll stake my track record on identifying businesses that are going to fail against their operation - the last version I saw crash and burn was virtually identical ( as in essentially indistinguishable ) from the FillerUp Club offering:

 

1. Join the Club!  Free trial membership, and only $10 per month if you decide to stay! 
2. Stock your 'Fuel Tank' only one time with Gas Vouchers. (details inside)
3. Continue to purchase gasoline at any station in the USA or Canada.
4. Send your receipt(s) to the FillerUpClub.
5. Receive a rebate check for up to 50% of your original cost.

 

You sent in your receipt with a voucher from the fuel book. You were supposed to get a check back. A few people did initially get checks back. The owner of the deal went to jail. The book was sold via MLM as well as a fundraising booklet.

The reason the deal collapses is because this entire deal is based on a breakage model.

FillerUp Club Breakage Model

A "breakage model" is a business model where a benefit is provided - usually a dramatic savings - based on a mathematic model that suggest that less people will redeem the coupon, voucher or certificate than actually purchase the certificate.  The product or service can be sold for less than its actual cost, because the "breakage" from revenue earned from unused vouchers is anticipated to exceed the amount paid out in savings and "benefits".

In this case the "benefit" is 50% off gas. The revenue comes from the fees payed for the certificates.

FillerUp Club Math

Based on information posted elsewhere online, the fees for Fillerup Club are as follows:

$10 per month membership fee

Voucher Fees ( required to get 'rebates' on your gas purchases via FillerUp Club )

Three Voucher Choices:

$200 - Allows a maximum of $66 per month in gas rebates

 

$400 - Allows a maximum of $132 per month in gas rebates

$600 - Allows a maximum of $200 per month in gas rebates

FillerUp Club claims the vouchers do not expire during that period.

 

On the face of it, it sounds great, right?

Spend $600 for a six month voucher, and get back $1200 by submitting gas receipts each month of $200 for the six month period the voucher is valid.

Let's simplify the program and say there are only 10 active members.

Each member pays $10 per month for the first six months.

Each member pays $600 when they enroll for the maximum voucher benefit.

Company revenue is $660 per member ( to keep it simple ).

The company has generated $6600 in revenue.

If the first 5 people in the FillerUp Club each submit their vouchers and gas receipts for the maximum amount every month for the first six months, the company will have paid out $6000. ( 5 people times $200 = $1000 x 6 months = $6000 )

Leaving a whopping $600 for operating expenses. And that's at a 50% breakage.

But if it's such an awesome deal, why would only 50% of the people use it?

Let's say that 6 out of the 10 people use it.

Uh oh.

That's $1200 a month the company must pay out in gas benefits for a total of $7200 meaning Joseph Dutton must take $600 out of his own pocket to pay the gas vouchers submitted by these people. And that's at 40% breakage...

Wait a minute. What about commissions? How is the company going to pay MLM Commissions if they will be going bankrupt if only 6 out of 10 people use the vouchers?

Here's where it gets dicey ( and potentially illegal ).  Ask your FillerUp Club rep how this breakage math can possibly work, and they are likely to tell you "But new people are signing up all the time! There's tons of money coming in, just look at my commission check from new enrollments..."

FillerUp Club Ponzi?

If a company is paying benefits owed to members based on fees paid by new members, it's a ponzi scheme.

Every time I have seen this fuel deal pop up, this is exactly how it ran, and exactly how it failed. And how at least one executive went to jail.

Consumers ( and MLM Reps ) may be willing to forget about a $10 a month charge on their credit card - millions of AOL ( America Online ) users did exactly that for years after they stopped using AOLs service - but it's very unlikely anyone in this economy is going to forget about a $600 dollar gas voucher they purchased which promises to pay them $200 a month back on their gas purchases for six months.

In order to be profitable and persist as a company, what kind of breakage does FillerUp Club need to stay in business?

Add in normal expenses. Rent. Payroll. Phones. Taxes. Can they survive only with 70% breakage? 80%?

Is there some other magic ingredient to the FillerUp Club business model that I'm not aware of? If so, please enlighten me here.

FillerUp Club Red Flags

Who does the merchant processing for FIllerUp Club voucher purchases? ( If the company folds, will you be able to get your money back from your credit card company )

What is the business history? ( how long in business, business rating, etc )

Who are the owners, and what is their success ( or failure ) history?

Nice post - again.

ANY company can fail - it's a fact of life and I consider it with each one.  the question is the upside.

With FillerUp Club there are 2 sides.

First, I've been in since '09 prelaunch.  They had some growing pains right after launch, but it's been flawless for over a year now paying commissions, and my gas rebates since this year (when I started with that. I focused on my downline and commissions first)  They do what they say, as they say it.

Second is the question - does each new MLM prelaunch require a mega-launch and virtual fireworks and big office?  What's wrong with a family starting one and building it?  I can't verify that's their house - but I don't care.  There are (last I checked) about 1200 active, paying members in the Club.  They hired part-time staff back in May, and with only 1000+ active members, if each one had sent in 3 receipts that's only 3000 - not hundreds of thousands.  It appears to be a scalable business.

Will it last? I can't guarantee that. How do they make the rebates work?  I think I know, but it's a trade secret to them and I won't spread conjecture I can't prove.

But they've done just what they say, and I'll trust them until proven otherwise.  As you said, benefit of the doubt. The difference, I get $32.50 back a month from them for gas rebates and a nice commission check too.

JP

This deal has been done to death in the past. Sometimes with criminal consequences.

http://repspace.com/forums/t/3143.aspx

 

 

I'll bite, with no animosity of course, and I realize that there are always people that will attack and go negative with pretty much no reason. It all sounds good at first, but I have found a few "rumors" at least in a few places on the Internet. No surprise there of course, but since you are directly involved as a rep, you'd be the guy to ask. I usually try to focus as hard on someone's complaint as I do on the topic they complain about, and one I seem to find a lot about Fillerupclub is that their web site has no contact information. Going by many network marketers I know, they won't even take a company with no solid contact info seriously, I generally think that is a good policy in this particular industry.

Anyway, I did find a number in addition to a contact address, so that pretty much debunks the complaints in this area. The web site is presented in a fairly modest fashion which I can appreciate since it doesn't come off overly flashy and infomercialish. I have many pipe dreams that as we progress as a species, we can sort of let go of marketing in general and actually tell the truth, be direct, and offer a service in a very direct and simple way!

(crickets)

Fillerup Club has done a good job emulating that idea from what I see so far, so kudos in that area. There is no information whatsoever about FillerUp Club at the BBB, and that includes its parent company Centrist Society, Inc. I expected it with FillerUp Club since its a new business, but sort of thought there would be something at least for Centrist.

Upon first glance, (and I feel guilty for this as someone that tries really hard to be an optimist) what FillerUp Club offers seems too good to be true. I don't know what the figure is for how many people are currently involved, but you can imagine how many receipts they must deal with. Also keep in mind that this is from Joseph Dutton's (the founder and owner) own account, a small business, allegedly run by two people. Here is a visual on the official address of the company.

 

Nice little place, cozy even, but it seems unlikely that something of this magnitude is being run from there. I could perhaps be being judgmental, maybe presumptuous, but as a consumer I want to protect myself financially just incase, you know? Is it possible that Dutton and his wife are really sitting in this tiny house going over hundreds of thousands of receipts?

Could be.

There are some small time complaints from people with vague issues, and even if you look specifically for FillerUp Club haters, they are few and far in between. I won't be terribly pessimistic YET. I've certainly found no shortage of similar mlm scams using gas as a hook, but until I see something more damning, I'll give FillerUp the benefit of the doubt.

no sweat.  I'm not so proud I can't understand why people question - and let's face it, SOMETIMES they bring up good points!

JP

Hey there Jon, and welcome to Repspace. I'll be glad to contribute some posts in regard to FillerUP. I love learning about new companies and getting the opportunity to introduce original concepts on these boards. There are some really awesome posters, and will most likely have a lot to add to, sometimes that includes a little friendly debate of course, so be warned lol.

 

I can't believe there's no posts about FillerUP Club here!

In the short version, FillerUP Club is a membership club that offers you 50% back on your monthly gas usage.  You buy a Rebate Certificate that qualifies you for a maximum refund a month - you save your original receipts (buy your gas whereever you want!) and send them in.

You get a check back.

There's also an income opportunity.  It's a 10x5 matrix and costs $10 a month to be an active member.  Do the math, and the monthly income potential is staggering!

It's been working since Spring '10, and I've been in since pre-launch in '09.  This is still a ground floor opportunity with only about 1300 active members right now.  We're growing steadily, but if you're a 'heavy hitter' you could explode this.

The most common questions I get? 

1. YES they're actively paying commissions. I get a nice check every month.

2. YES! they pay rebates. I get my rebate every month.

Not a extensive review ( I may do one...), but if you haven't heard of it, check out my page at:

http://GasHalfPriced.com

Or drop me a line with any questions!

 

Just found this and giving it a try - EASY to set up banner ad for $1/1000 views.

http://womvegas.com/get-wom-banners.php?id=10121

 

Zija is quickly becoming a buzz in the network marketing industry.

http://homebusinessagency.com/5-star-company-choice-of-the-year/

Look where Zija is going!

http://thelegacyleaf.com/zija/an-inside-look-at-the-growth-of-zija/

 

 

The more I hear, the more excited I get. Seems like its a pretty decent cup of coffee from what I keep reading.

That's funny, I've just started offering free samples of the Javita coffee as well in my flyers!

I held off getting too excited by the opportunity until I tried the product, and I was amazed an instant can taste this good.  Once you try it, and realize it's a great way to EARN as well, it's almost a no-brainer!

Jon

Thanks for setting up a free sample for me Fallon, I'm looking forward to trying out the product!

Hey Everyone,

Please note its not a problem if you dont wish to sell Javita you can be just a retail customer. You can shop online via the website at your on leisure if you love the coffee.

Hi Fallon, and thank you for offering that link, that is a big help, and if you are personally covering the cost for sending these samples out then let me say I think that's very cool of you to do. In fact its the equivalent of buying me a coffee in my book...well, actually, that's because you are lol, so thank you for doing that, and I hope you don't get bombarded with requests. I am definitely interested in trying the product, and while I know I would never sell it, I may just buy it regularly if its good. This is the kind of thing that I would end up writing a post about as a review of a product, quality, taste etc. Plus I seriously love coffee incase you can't tell lol.

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