lol, I can't speak for Rick, but I work from home, and aside from lifting, going out with the fam or errands I am on the computer wayyyyyy too much. I also love to write. That's not to say that I'm any good at it, but basically I like to dump whatever is on my brain. Rick rants more than I do (in my opinion), but being a fellow ranter, we sort of feed off one another lol.

Besides Jon, you are far more neutral and fair about a lot of this stuff than I am. Your replies may sometimes be shorter, but at least you don't alienate one side or the other or make an ass of yourself. Plus, your posts aren't depressing, sometimes political, offensive, and completely off topic at certain points. You are probably the better kind of animal for this farm, especially because you have experience with all of it.

Look how ridiculous my life is, I write all kinds of crap, even reviews and profiles, and have never touched an mlm business in my life lol. I think not participating in any of them, and yet having a unhealthy interest in the entire industry is kind of warped.

why is it you guys have an apparently unlimited amount of time to write these amazing diatribes, so that I can't reasonably respond? ;)

Excellent question indeed, and a great reply Jon.

I can see where you're coming from about the misspellings. I don't think he's saying that we aren't all human and spell things wrong from time to time, just that there are a few small,  telltale signs that someone who claims to be a doctor might not be. Lets face it, the entire civilized world is run on the success of appearance. Its how leaders are elected, products are sold, first impressions are made, jobs are landed, art is sold, pop/hip hop "artists" are manufactured, and the sole reason we fix ourselves up before going out.

If you can market a product and control every avenue of its marketing, you have an entire percentage of the population that will definitely believe the things you suggest. You don't even have to lie, just show a guy named "Bill" with a stethoscope saying how wonderful a product is, and 700 million Americans will feel at ease and be ok with the product, even more so if a celebrity endorses it, even if its a vitamin to reverse the effects of Trioxin (That's the name of the chemical that turned people into zombies in Return of the Living Dead.).

Yes, It pains me to have made that last comment even with an exaggerated figure because I realize I am insulting the intelligence of a large percentage of my country, but it sort of does reflect the truth don't you think? Standards for what constitutes "fact" have actually always been at an all time low. Our lack of real fact checking is what lead us into Vietnam, Iraq, and all kinds of other miseries. Americans in particular almost have a love of gimmicks.

Selling "ice to Eskimos" as they say has actually become something of a virtue to entrepreneurs, equating to a "high five" or a badge of efficiency between them. Our educational system doesn't help either, as that has been rapidly swirling in the toilet bowl for over 30 years or so, and its in a wonderful education that you learn how to think critically, apply references, fact check, and call most marketing for what it is; lying, exaggerating, and stealing via the lack of better judgement of your target demographic.

Note that I said most marketing, not all marketing.

I think as far as mlm proof goes, the only backbone we have left to rely on would maybe be Independent studies done by 3rd parties. It would definitely help if the government had a branch that specializes in verifying the safety and effectiveness of virtually all claims made by companies. You might think we have the EPA, and FDA for things like that, but most products never go through those branches because they have little labels on them protecting the crooks from having to account for anything. I suppose legitimate proof will be valid when; instead of those little labels saying "this product is not a cure for bla bla, and does not promise to be an effective treatment for bla bla" you have labels that say; 100% guaranteed or your money back, no questions asked, no shipping charges. While also passing all independent tests, none of which are run by the company in question, or its affiliates.

Before I shut up and end this book I have written (sorry,  I would like to ask you why you think the government has never really cracked down on companies that may not be blatant scams, but do sell products that fail to meet expectations.... The answer is because they want you to spend, plain and simple. So long as your product is not harming anyone, and doesn't clash with their own vested interests, mild scams are basically the American way.

A couple of thoughts,

First, GREAT question.  Honestly, I want to think about it and get back with you.  Society-wide, I believe it might just be optimism and holding out hope for that 'silver bullet'.  MLM-wise, it's a poor reflection on the industry that too many companies with questionable products but great marketing and placement can color the opinion of everyone else and thus ruin it for honest, legitimate companies choosing Network Marketing as the best distribution model.

Second, I don't hold mis-spellings against anyone online, even someone who's been through pre-med.  There's a world of difference between my typing something 'officially' and pounding out a quick forum response.  I admit, I spent about, let's see.... ZERO time proofreading my posts.

That being said, there's also a distinction to be made between a legitimate mis-spelling and uneducated, poor grammar. "yo', so like I LOVE my comp'ny cuz it da' bestest ever! I envisualize my sucksess every day!"

(and actually, I LOVE the word 'envisualize' and try to use it every day.  Patent-Pending, as it were! :))

Finally, did you *actually* list me in the esteemed company of Wallace, Watchdog, etc.?! Like, so AWESOME, ya' know?!

Today I visited Repspace as I often do when I get home from work, and I found myself ranting about ASEA salt water. After I took a chill pill and relaxed, I began to remember a few things that other posters have share din other threads, and a few things popped into my mind. One of them, was Watchdog try to remind us all what the definition of a scam is. This was really helpful information for many of us, because without it, its pretty easy to just go off on a tirade about something being a "scam" without really explaining why, or defining just what that is.

Another point was made more recently by Wallace, in a debate about the legitimacy of Envirotabs, and how Angel, another forum poster didn't seem to present an argument based on a more widely accepted variation of "facts" or proof. I got so irritated about the ASEA thread because I found much of what was online to be repetitious marketing blogs deigned to sound professional. I found "doctors" that looked like doctors, but didn't REALLY sound like doctors. That is to say that if you've had 10 years of med school, you should be able to type me out of the water and not make grammatical mistakes that I would make with my community college degree.

So at the core of all of this is a major question that I have begun wondering and want to ask all members of this forum. What constitutes truth? What kind of proof should we have before we can accept the claims made my any mlm company or any rep? Should it be 100% empirical like Wallace says? Should company web sites be the last place we go in an attempt at verifying anything? After all, I'd like to think that the last person you would go to in order to ask about the integrity of a politician is the politician him or herself, right?

I have noticed something that has really started to bother me about today's world, and that is that too many people are believing too many things without any kind of logical rationality behind it. Its the reason why no one agrees what the healthiest foods are, whether sunlight is good or bad for your skin, good fat vs bad fat. Its as if all common sense has gone out the window because we are all so starved of optimism that we will believe anything that promises us something great.

So, Wallace, Watchdog, Jango, Angel, Travis, Jon, Beth, Ivette, ANYONE...

Can you give me your idea of what criteria a product or company should meet before its claims should be accepted? I'm not talking about trying it yourself. I mean something more procedural that we could all implement as a team.

Damn Rick, that was a lively one lol...

To be completely honest, as downright inflammatory as that may have been, I can't help but agree with you. I really don't have the credentials to say anything about redox signaling, but I have this overwhelming sense that somewhere here, either in the data, or the presentation, or in the overall scheme of things, that this too will come and go, having been debunked somewhere down the line at some point. Though it could be argued that your most incendiary response could be a mutated, ungoverned extreme skepticism, the kind posters like Angel cringe from lol. I happen to have it to, and it could be possible that we are just too mean and cynical to believe in anything that packs this much "promise" by my buddy calls it "hype", and rarely does hype ever reflect reality.

I don't think it was all that polite to pick on Paul's English though, it could be that English is his secondary language, in which case I am won over by anyone who knows more than one language. Could also have been a couple typos, but if we're going to debate we shouldn't get so mad that we start tearing down character, and believe me I have been guilty of it as well. Just something to think about when tempers start flaring. This is Repspace, and we do have a nice little group of people posting, and we should always welcome new people, no matter how differently we may feel.

As far as ASEA goes, you know where I stand. I pretty much feel that its like Evolv, only based on a process that science can barely explain to us laymen, let alone mass produce. One thing you said that I found profoundly accurate was what you said about the people taking it after ten years. That was along the lines of prophetic my friend, in my humble opinion. I don't think there will even be an ASEA in 10 years, but you never know. Lesser entities have managed to grow into major corporations.

DUDE! lol

Really? Not so fast "ranting" ? "Do you homework" before passing on an "un-researched" question? First of all, go take an English class, then when you're done do a little proof reading of your own material before criticizing anyone else's opinion.  You said that most people are smart enough now to realize that the Internet is just a place where anyone can rant their opinion without "facts" or "truths" to back them up. You're absolutely correct sir, its an interesting parallel to how most people are smart enough now realize that the Internet is just a place where anyone can claim anything without facts or truth to back them up.

I love to what degree you ASEA cons flooded the Internet with the same series of search term catchers. There are the typical "Is ASEA a scam?" results, then there are the 10 million that all turn up planting "ASEA" and "misunderstood" in the same paragraph. It doesn't matter how much ASEA pays to spread their information and their product across the Internet, its latched on to the whole "redox signaling" concept and promising unrealistic results.

You can type in, “Redox Signaling Molecules” on Google all you want and you will see hundreds of thousands of references to research, studies, conferences and breakthroughs all over the world, and all lead to little more than some highly generous, and bold statements made by scientists and doctors, and that may be true, but apparently no one in the entire world was able to figure out how to bottle it until ASEA came along, and thankfully, they are going to give the world its miracle cure in the form of an MLM product. Not a medication, not a therapy for the medical community, but an mlm plan.

Amazing.

You see products like this remind me of religion. The marketing is designed in such a way that the more you stare at it, the more you want to believe, and the advertising is bent in such a way as to completely avoid any real accountability. All kinds of doctors claiming they endorse ASEA, and yet none of them provide links to their practices, or their credentials, they appear on web sites, ASEA web sites, ASEA affiliates, as if an asylum of Kmart flyer underwear models all escaped and put on medical coats before endorsing the product. It seems like ASEA took a concept, that being "redox signaling" and is associating its product with that concept, thereby presenting them as the same. Well I want proof first. I want to hear it from a mainstream source, not some random rep, Joe Shmoe in a doctor's outfit or from the ASEA web site. Give me real proof, and then I'll stop ranting.

The label says it all, and I don't care what amounts you mix them in, its effing salt water. Maybe if I get the amounts just right on a molecular level, I can start bottling it for free to really deliver better health to the world. Maybe I can send some to Africa where they REALLY deserve a drink of something without toxins or diseases in it. Or should I go the mlm route and slap a fat price on it.

$150 a case, give me a break.

Let me tell you something that won't cost you a thing, it will be completely free, and it will be one of the truest things you ever read on the Internet. 10 Years from now, assuming this product is still here, all the people that will have been drinking ASEA water for a decade, will all still die at typical ages. They won't have had younger looking skin, or longer life spans, or the ability to do flips, think clearer and run faster. The only thing that will have changed is that they will be without the money they'd have had if they didn't spend it on your stupid placebo.

It doesn't matter how many "studies" you read, start using your common sense, and stop following the herd.

Rick,

ASEA Scam?? Rick indicated that if you had half a brain you would see that ASEA is a scam. Not so fast "ranting" Rick. Do you home work before you pass on your un-researched opinion. Most people are smart enough now to realize that the internet is just a place where anyone can rant their opinion without facts or truths to back them up.

If you do your research into the new medical science of redox signaling you would have found that this new technology of redox signaling is one of the fastest emerging medical health sciences along with stem cell research.

For anyone who is really interested in getting the facts and doing their own discovery about ASEA and the science of Redox Signaling I would recommend starting by understanding what the medical doctors are talking about from their own peer reviewed papers at  www.pubmed.org with over 7000 papers on this amazing technology an over 100 new peer reviewed papers each month. After you prove to yourself that this technology is the real deal, I'd recommend spending a few minutes on the ASEA corporate site to get your own opinion on the technology breakthrough behind ASEA at www.teamasea.com.

After you do your own "ASEA discovery" you will be in a much better place to make your own decision about ASEA rather than just talking someone's opinion who likes to "rant" on the internet slamming companies without any factual basis. 

ASEA Scam? No it's the real deal.

Paul

Thanks Wallace; I do believe in my product.  I, personally, would never try to sell something to someone that is a complete scam.  Doing so would ruin my credibility, not only as a network marketer, but as a person as well.  I will stick this out as long as it takes for us to reach an agreement.  It is perfectly fine to be skeptical, I'd be more surprised if you weren't; considering the track record of past failing companies.

Now as for the matter of the Insurance Certificate; this is what my support team emailed me:

We are enclosing the link to the Company that we use for our Insurance Policy.

This is a protection for everyone to ensure typical protocols.


http://www.bbb.org/central-northern-western-arizona/business-reviews/insurance-companies/nautilus-insurance-company-in-scottsdale-az-26000828/

Warm Regards,

Jenna

Now the only thing I can make of this is that somethings are too confidential to fully address.  I as a distributor don't really know why.  Although, Bill Hyman, one of the Co-Founders, always talked about all these privacy clauses.  It may be a red flag, but as long as the product works then I'm done asking them corporate questions.  There are some questions, a mere distributor, just can't get detailed answers for.

I pretty sure, even though the certificate looks "shady," that it is legitimate.  Because I'm quite sure, legally, if they say they have that insurance policy and have the document I provided, by law, they have to abide by it.  Otherwise, they would be committing insurance fraud.  I'm sure they wouldn't take that risk.

Let me know you thoughts on this.

Regards,

Angel

I appreciate your sticking around Angel, while me may disagree on some fundamental concepts, I definitely value your tenacity and willingness to stick it out and work with us all as we continue discussing this topic. Its one thing when I disagree with a rep that I feel is knowingly trying to sell a scam, because my opinion of people like that is pretty low. In your case however, you seem to really believe in your product, and that changes the dynamic for me, so thanks for remaining. As skeptical as I admittedly am, I am open enough to take a good, honest look at anything we all find together, and if you were to read my past posts, any time I'm proven wrong, I gladly chew on my boot.

@ JangoMan  Thank you kind sir.  I strive to answer everyone's questions as best as I can.  I thought the Waldo comment would make you chuckle lol.  Just to ease some of the tension.

@Wallace  So they only make the forms huh.  Well then they can't really clarify much.  I have emailed the insurance company to verify, and answer your skeptical concerns.  As soon as I get a response I will let you know.

Regards,

Angel

I wanted to get Acord's take on the document, because it definitely appears shady. I have no idea if it is legitimate or not, but here is a copy of an email along with a response I got from them a couple hours later.  On one hand, I realize that Acord can't really say whether or not the document is valid from a legal stand point since they only make the forms, but they did reply with this:


From: ACORD Member Services <memberservices@acord.org>
Subject: RE: Acord Form Validity
To: "Wallace (Its a secret)
Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 9:56 AM

Hello

 This is an old version of the Certificate that is now considered obsolete but the wording on it appears to be correct.  It was a (2) page form and I have attached a copy of the actual obsolete form with edition date 2009/01.  The most current and valid version of this form is 2010/05.  Older versions of forms are non-compliant.

 Hope this helps.

 

Regards

Member Services

 

From: Wallace (censored)Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 8:09 AM
To: ACORD Member Services
Subject: Acord Form Validity

 

Hi there, my name is Wallace (top secret), and I have recently been presented with an Acord Insurance Liability form. What I've been trying to figure out is if the attached form is valid or invalid based on the mis-spelling of the insured company name Green Foot Global (It should be Greenfoot Global) as well as the date of the actual Acord form which is dated at 2009. Essentially, we are trying to determine whether or not the company in question is a scam or not, and would like to know if the form which they have presented is in any way invalid. I sincerely appreciate any assistance you can provide and kindly thank you in advance.

Best Regards, Wallace (nothing to see here)

Not the most helpful reply in the world, but I do appreciate them substantiating some degree of it. There are a few other things that need to be considered as well, especially when considering the legalities of things like names and logos. Whether or not the title (Greenfoot Global vs Green foot global) is done properly or not is a MAJOR deal, these are legal contracts, and word positioning can have major consequences with everything from copyright issues to patents. I personally don't believe that any insurance company, nor Greenfoot Global would make errors like the one on that form. I also don't believe that there would be any reason to even thing there would be any "Paparrazi" fears at all, unless of course you are nervous of the consequences of your actions, like being paranoid of the law. No matter what the reason for the anonymity, it can't be good.

Angel -

I did got to the company site and request clarification from support.

P.S. Thoroughly enjoyed your rebuttal. It is rare that someone actually addressed each issue raised here, and you certainly did in a tone that perfectly matched and one-upped my post.

"I can't find Waldo". Classic.

Ok Mr. Ignorant; time to answer your questions.

Answer to producer question:  probably due to a privacy requirement

Answer about the holder:  the patent holder for EnviroTabs, aka in the document "to whom it may concern," has a contract agreement with GFG to represent and distribute his product; but he had no interest in the mlm business.  he then asked that a privacy clause to be added; he doesn't want people knowing who he is.  not because he is fake; but because he doesn't want to be bombarded by people, asking him questions and whatnot.  he didn't allow GFG to represent him for fame; for he just doesn't want to be bothered.  But, "Why" you may ask.  I can't tell you exactly why, for I am not him; but If I were to take a guess, it'd be that he doesn't want to be, in a sense, "paparazzied."  He doesn't want any attention from the general public; he wants to live his life the way he has been living it.  Displaying his physical address would be a violation of GFG's contract with him; we would lose our rights and go out of business.

Answer to the way GFG's name is spelled:  Now that was the most retarded questions I seen thus far.  It's a fake because the name had a space where it doesn't on the site.  Get real, stupid.  Greenfoot Global, GreenFoot Global, Green foot Global, Green Foot Global, green foot global; It's all the SAME NAME!!!   That was one of the most pathetic attempts to conduct an argument regarding legitimacy.

Answer to number four:  From your example document: DESCRIPTION OF OPERATIONS:  Regents are often named additional insured here; place & event sometimes described here.  Keywords: "often" and "sometimes,"  which means that it doesn't have to have it.  It's their choice.  If only those keywords read "required," then you'd be right; but in this case you are not.

Answer to number five:  current or not current does not effect the legitimacy of the form.  there could be many reason for that; an acord error, that's the form they had when they signed it, etc.  The only difference is 2009 to 2011; that's not going to invalidate anything.

Quite frankly, I don't give a mthr fk what you can do on photoshop.

You can't find Mindy?  And I can't find Waldo in the "Where's Waldo" book lol; there could also be other reasons for her not being there.

Why don't you just go to the site, and contact the support with your questions?  I'm just a distributor.

Regards,

Angel

P.S.  You are a Failure!!!

[quote user="Angel"] 

http://www.greenfootglobal.com/clientinc/upload/gfginsurancecert2-14-11.jpg

$1,000,000 Insurance Certificate

Angel -

Are you joking? This is an example of what a true and correct Acord insurance document is supposed to look like:

http://www.busserv.ucsb.edu/Forms/rm/quicktips/QTAcordCert.pdf

The issues with GreenFoot Global Insurance form you posted are almost endless but lets start with the obvious:

1) No information listed in the Producer box. The only thing there is "Henderson Nevada 89074". Why would the name of the producer be missing?

2) The insured box says "Green Foot Global LLC" - but the address information has been blocked out or erased from the box too. Why would this info be missing? only a small smudge of the address still appears. You claim this is the legit $1,000,000 certificate yet not only does the address of the company not appear, but they have an Acord certificate for "GREEN FOOT GLOBAL" with a space in the business name, when their registered business name on their site is "Greenfoot Global" - no space? I don't know about you, but if I paid for a $1,000,000 insurance policy it would damn well have my business name spelled correctly.

3) Perhaps the most glaring - "Certificate Holder" box says "To Whom It May Concern". WTF? Seriously, WHAT THE F is that supposed to mean? Take a good hard look at a documented example of what a real certificate is supposed to look like, and you'll note that the "Certificate Holder" box should have the name of the actual holder of the certificate. Again, WTF? Are you joking? Do you really think this is legit when it says "To Whom It May Concern"?

4) Description of operations doesn't include a description of operations.

5) It's not even a current form - its a 2009 form.

I could photoshop a copy of this on my own in about five minutes. I could claim a $1,000,000,000 policy that covers in the event my cat craps on my bedspread.

I would be smart enough to fill in the fields correctly and actually fill in the name fields correctly to give it at least a kindergarten level air of authenticity.

I can't even find a Mindy Williams at a Nautilus Insurance Agency anywhere in the country either.

F. As in Fail. As in Epic Fail.

http://www.greenfootglobal.com/clientinc/upload/EPARegletter.pdf

EPA Registration

http://www.greenfootglobal.com/clientinc/upload/gfginsurancecert2-14-11.jpg

$1,000,000 Insurance Certificate

I've been trying to verify some of the Envirotab / Greenfoot Global claims and am coming up with blanks.

The only Envirotabs I can find registered with the EPA are under this company:

ConSeal International, Inc.
90 Kerry Place, Suite 2
Norwood, MA 02062
781-278-0010
President Stephen C. Perry

I can not find any info about the $1,000,000 insurance, or even verification that the product is a tier 1 registered additive ( for a fee of $250,000 as is claimed in this thread.

Angel, or anyone else, please provide direct links to the proof please.

What's is it with you guys saying " I can't afford to try it"...it's doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  Our company has an eight tank money back guarantee, not a 30 day or even a 60.  As long as it takes you to fill up eight tanks with the product; so if you fill up once a week, you have two and a half months to test the product for yourself.  It's up to you guys now, try it or don't.

Yes I know this is "Repspace."  This business scam forum, is to find out if the company is a scam or not.  Define a scam first; because some of you have seem to not understand its meaning, a fraudulent business scheme.  We aren't frauding anyone; this isn't a pyramid scheme, or any of the sort.

And Wallace, the company gave out enough free samples beforehand.  That's why they decided to start the business.  Bill Hyman, Co-Founder, Author, Speaker, even was skeptical about the product.  He then gave out free samples to everyone who crossed his path, asking them to try it.  That is why we are in business today; if the product didn't work for those people, there would be no Greenfoot  Global nor EnviroTabs.  If this were a scam, we'd promise income no matter what.  Greenfoot Global wouldn't have spent $250,000 for the tier 1 test required for EPA registration.  Not to mention the $1,000,000 insurance policy per occurance.  No company in my field has an insurance policy, let alone a $1,000,000 insure policy.

Have a great day guys, hopefully the economy treats you well.

In my humble opinion, still just an overhyped fuel catalyst. The same as can be purchased at AutoZone or Pep Boys.

I'm wondering if the same nobel peace prize applies to the ingredient in those brand name catalysts.

Now now, no fighting gentlemen, I'd expect that from me, but not from you guys, I'm usually the one flaming people or generally being immature. And who could possibly have been offended by Beth, she rocks lol. You never know what sex someone is, sometimes people just fill out a registration form and leave it as default. I'm not sure that I'd care if someone thought I was a man or woman, I'm generally pretty secure with myself. I know all you guys are mad passionate but lets keep it peaceful, we already had the infamous Evolv wars, we don't need to have a repeat lol. I can't afford to try envirotabs but if anyone is willing to send me enough samples to get an accurate reading I'll be more than happy to post some honest results .

Lol, Angel we usually don't go the "lashing out" route here on these boards. That isn't to say that no one (least of all myself) gets frustrated or yes; has a sense of humor, but most of us here are a bit more mature than that. As far as you not liking me, I assure you there is no tragedy there, and I will sleep quite soundly tonight lol. I however take a different, more grown up tactic in how I approach people whose idea of "educating" others is a bit different. Instead of not liking you because you appear manipulative, presumptuous and intellectually balking, I have rather enjoyed our conversations thus far. I have done nothing more than question the integrity of your company's claims, and more specifically, the materials that constitute "proof", which would not withstand the blows of real scientific scrutiny, and deep down inside, I don't believe you're too ignorant to know it.

In fact I think you know very well what you're doing, and aside from some friendly debate I haven't done anything to deter you from your goals aside from a few questions and my expressing that a link to an audio file with no form of scientific reference is AMUSING, and worthy of a bit of laughter. It was not meant to be mean or spiteful, it was just something I thought was funny. This is Repspace, and we discuss things, we break them down until we completely understand them, and 9 times out of 10 we are all able to put our heads together and determine if a product is worthy or not. Not one poster is, or pretends to be perfect, and we all have different opinions regarding the validity of a company. There is a great deal of freedom here on these boards. You have the freedom to promote your business, and I have the freedom to QUESTION that business, and I believe I have been lighthearted and polite, and I can't same the same about you.

If you are offended because the "education" you have provided became the source of laughter, perhaps it would be wise to really observe the materials you're using as evidence to back up your claims, and ask yourself how close they are to being empirically sound.

Just a thought.

Travis, you differ from the other skeptical people in this forum.  You actually agree with testing the product personally, to see whether the product is legit or not; and for that I thank you.

Me personally, I don't really market the whole increase mpg claim, because so many factors come in to play in that field.  Anything from the type of driver, vehicle age, weather conditions, vehicle conditions (tire pressure, windows down vs windows up, etc.), to seasons of the year.  Any of those can negatively alter the tests.

Now for you wallace, i don't like you much; not just because you are niave and ingorant, but because you are jaded and are here just to undermine, make fun of everything we say and provide you with.  We are here to educate you; and you obviously don't want to be educated on our product since you won't even bother testing it yourself.

Hard to add to this conversation because I am probably a little too skeptical myself, but I would recommend that anything be given a chance. The alternative is to go on not knowing for sure. People spend money on all kinds of silly things, I don't think for most of us that it would run us into the ground to buy a week's supply and do a little old fashioned testing. You can take the testimonials, research and pdfs provided by any company and debate them until the cows come home, and not get any closer to the truth. I don't want to see any heated tempers make the thread unwelcoming to new people. I'd be willing to buy a few of these and post my results. First thing is to figure out how much I need for an accurate test?

Hello everyone, I'm surprised to even hear this name at this point in time, I didn't think anyone was reviewing them anymore. Unipay is a prime example of a golden rule breaker in network marketing. Never join a company that doesn't have a product. This is exactly what people are talking about when they say that. A company should never use currency, credit, points or tokens as a product.

A true mlm scam will basically look just like Unipay, a chain of bad references, reports and complaints, a lack of product, conflicting information, and of course countries known to be corrupt actually throwing them out lol. On one hand, I suppose its helpful reviewing companies like this because it keeps those rock people that haven't seen the news in 15 years up to date on whom to avoid in business, but on the other hand you're keeping their search activity fresh.

The Unipay scheme reminds me of SWISSCASH, another scam run by Malaysians. People did receive cash so long as new people were being brought in, but that was the only source of income, we all know how to define that. I think the Swiss operation went down having raked in about $83 million dollars until Malaysia government intervened.

Good rule of thumb. No product=no go.

These guys seem to be toppling faster than a drunk Jenga session. Having recently visited them to see if they were still standing, it appears that most countries have shut them down with the exception of the Philippines, Bangladesh, and India. Here is a link to their web site, where you will see their previous bases of operation, many of which seem to no longer be valid.

https://www.unipay2u.com/Default.aspx

For those of you that didn't know, UniPay2u International is an international company headquartered at Best Genius Sdn.Bhd. (778327-A) 13 A-1, Jalan Solaris, 3, Solaris Mont Kiara, 50480, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Its unknown if the company is still operating there, but that was the official location. UniPay2U was founded in 2007 with a mission to help you "achieve superior returns and manage your wealth and financial affairs by utilizing the most powerful, profitable, private and protected plans and structures - all to achieve your personal and financial goals!". Much of their contact information may or may not be the same, but as of today the same contact info hasn't been updated.

UniPay2U is basically presented as a subsidiary of a foreign investment firm that calls themselves: Best Genius Sdn Bhd Malaysia. I have been unable to find any information on this parent company, and its difficult to say if it actually still exists, with the exceptions of references made by UniPay2U and affiliates, despite there being no official web site, and no contact information.

To make what is already shady; downright dark, the product provided by this company is something you can only own on paper (after purchasing it of course) including the rented storage space which you will also be purchasing in the form of a professional bullion vault. Anyone utilizing the service will have their purchases allegedly stored by Via Mat in Switzerland, United Kingdom, or The United States. The company also claims to provide a means by which to buy, trade and sell with other members via UniPay2U's order board. The sketchy part of this if you haven't already guessed it, is that the gold never moves, you never have it in hand, and it is basically credit. The only thing that can ever change is ownership, should you decide to trade or sell, leaving members with only insurance, and there is no intermediating trust.

I like to include things like the comp plan and the membership packages available, but in this case I'm afraid there is far too much conflicting information about it. It could possibly be because it has operated in various countries which means different currencies and plans etc, but ultimately the mark left by this company overall suggests it is highly unstable at best, and a complete fraudulent scam at worst. To date, I find it difficult to find any credible reports of success (not that it would matter since it would mean a purchase of a non-existent product) while there is an ocean of complaints and grievances, not to mention the fact that several countries have shut them down. When a company is shut down in The United States, you can expect there to be a good reason, when a company is shut down in countries bordering the 3rd world, you better believe there is something bad happening. I'm not so sure whether or not you would reach anyone, but according to UniPay2U, you can reach someone at these phone numbers.

Phone: 0063 62040732

Fax : 006 03 62040731